12/08/15 12/08/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from the u.n. climate summit in paris, france, this is democracy now! today, the man british prime minister david cameron called a terrorist sympathizer. >> jeremy corbyn. amy: britain's new opposition leader jeremy corbyn in his first televised u.s. interview on why he opposed the bombing of syria, his refusal to drop a nuclear bomb anywhere if he were

prime minister, and why he welcomed shaker aamer to the british parliament the last , british resident to be released from guantanamo. >> what on earth are we doing in this world where we lock people up for now 14 years in guantánamo bay with no charge, no trial, no process, no habeas ofpus, a legal black hole the equivalent of outer space where we don't know what is going on there. it is simply wrong. it has got to be closed. amy: and the british labor leader jeremy corbyn talks about the largest exodus of refugees since world war ii. >> we are not going to secure the world's future with razor wire and electronic surveillance of borders. you're my secure the world's future if you do with the desperate levels of inequality in the world and deal with the disproportionate effects of

environmental change around the world. amy: and we'll speak with climate scientist kevin anderson of the tyndall centre for climate change research. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're broadcasting live from the 21st u.n. climate summit in paris, france. but to u.s. presidential first, politics. republican presidential front-runner donald trump has called for a "total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states." >> donald j trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out

what the hell is going on. [applause] we have no choice. we have no choice. amy: donald trump was speaking at a rally at the uss yorktown in south carolina monday night. his campaign manager said the proposed ban would apply to both muslims seeking immigration simplynd tourists seeking to visit the united states. it came only one day after president obama spoke in a rare televised address from the oval office, calling for the nation to reject islamophobia in the wake of the san bernardino shootings, which obama called an act of terror. the proposal quickly drew comparisons to policies and active by nazi germany against the jews in common -- condemnation from democratic and republican candidates as well cited groups. the head of the council on

american-islamic relations, nihad awad, compared trump to the leader of a lynch mob. >> extremely shocked to hear donald trump calling for total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the u.s. this is outrageous coming from someone who once assumed -- once to assume the highest level. it is un-american. donald trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours. are playing in the hands of isis. amy: that was nihad awad, the head of the council on american-islamic relations. later, award-winning nigerian-american writer teju cole posted on his facebook -- "trump is a dangerous clown. but it is important to understand that his idea of "banning all muslims,"

scandalous as it is is far less , scandalous than the past dozen years of american disregard for non-american muslim lives. no american president in the past years has openly championed 14 islamophobia, but none has refrained from doing to muslims overseas what would be unthinkable to do here to americans of any religion." beijing has issued its first-ever red alert for pollution, as china's capital city is engulfed in thick smog rife with poisonous chemicals that can make residents sick from simply stepping outside. the government has urged schools to close, and has ordered a halt on all outdoor construction work. in some beijing neighborhoods, residents can see only about six -- 600 feet ahead of them. beijing resident li teng spoke out. i think it is really scary. i guess the pollution is serious enough.

amy: this comes as the western coast of norway experiences the worst flooding since record-keeping began more than 100 years ago. we'll speak with climate scientist kevin anderson of the university of manchester in britain later in the broadcast. the united nations has asked for $20 billion to respond to greatest mass displacement of people since world war ii. it is the largest appeal to address forced displacement that the united nations has ever launched. u.n. officials cited the wars in syria, iraq, yemen and south , sudan as one of the major reasons there are nearly 60 million refugees worldwide. u.n. high commissioner for refugees antónio guterres warns that at the present level of funding, the agency is "not able to provide even the very minimum in core protection and lifesaving assistance." the u.n. aid appeal comes as germany releases new figures showing it is on track to accept

more than one million refugees this year alone. that is more than four times the total number of refugees who resettled in germany last year. the figures show that in recent months, syrians have constituted more than 30% of all refugee applications. meanwhile, dozens of central american mothers whose children went missing in mexico while attempting to flee violence in their home countries are now traversing mexico on a journey to search for their missing children. the three-week-long caravan of central american mothers includes women from el salvador, honduras, guatemala and nicaragua. their children are among the tens of thousands who disappear each year along what experts call one of the most deadly migration routes in the world. speaking at a news conference in mexico city on monday, lourdes sauzo, whose son was killed in mexico spoke about his body , being returned to her in pieces.

>> after 26 months, we received is remains, the pieces. we do not receive all of the pieces of his body. we demand that, please -- not please, but demand the bodies be sent in entirety. bodies have been sent that don't belong to the victims. they say it is a woman, and they send the body of a man. amy: in the united states, seven detained asylum seekers on hunger strike have been sent to the medical unit at the etowah county detention center have -- as their strike stretches into its 12th day. they're demanding their freedom. others report being subject to sleep deprivation and threatened with force feeding and deportation. democratic presidential candidates bernie sanders and martin o'malley have expressed support for the more than 100 asylum seekers on hunger strike across the united states.

in the occupied west bank, israeli troops have shot and killed two palestinians. palestinian medial sources say israeli troops shot and killed 19-year-old malik shaheen during a raid earlier today in the deheishe refugee camp in bethlehem. this comes one day after israeli security forces shot and killed a man in hebron whom they accused of carrying out a non-lethal stabbing attack. since october 1, israeli security forces have killed 105 palestinians. 19 israelis and one u.s. citizen have been killed during this same time period. some of the world's biggest military contractors, including lockheed martin and raytheon, have told investors that the companies will see "benefits" from the growing conflicts across the middle east. in a story first reported by the intercept, the contractors spoke of the growing demand for f-22 and f-35 fighter jets, rockets, and armored vehicles during a west palm beach conference this week. in baltimore, maryland, medical

experts have testified to a jury that 25-year-old freddie gray, who suffered a fatal spinal cord injury in police custody in april, might have survived if the police had taken him to a hospital sooner. the testimony came monday as the trial against officer william porter entered its second week. porter is the first of six officers who are being charged for freddie gray's death. and at yale university, a professor who sparked protests after dismissing concerns about culturally offensive halloween costumes, has resigned. the controversy began in october when yale's administration sent an email reminding students to respect each other's cultures on halloween and to avoid wearing offensive or appropriative costumes. in response, professor erika christakis sent an email pushing back against the advice, writing -- "is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious. a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive?"

her email sparked protests and came amid other instances of racism on campus, including a woman of color reportedly being denied entry to a fraternity party because she is not white. on monday, a statement issued by yale said christakis had voluntarily decided not to teach in the future at the university. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting live from cop21, the u.n. climate summit in paris, france. three months ago, jeremy corbyn shocked the world when he was elected head of the labour party in britain becoming the , country's opposition leader. corbyn vowed to return the labour party to its socialist roots, championing the renationalization of public transportation, free university tuition, rent control, and a national maximum wage to cap the salaries of high earners. corbyn has been a longtime

anti-war activist and chaired the stop the war coalition. well, last week, he led the charge to vote against authorizing british prime minister david cameron to begin bombing syria. a day before the vote, cameron accused corbyn of being a terrorist sympathizer for opposing airstrikes. i set down with jeremy corbyn last night in paris in his first u.s. tv/radio interview since being elected labour leader. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. we are in paris france with the head of the labour party of britain, the opposition party in britain. he was just elected a few months ago, jeremy corbyn. it is great to have you with us. how did you do it? >> well, we launched a campaign for the labour party after the general election defeat in may, we were obviously very sad losing the general election, and i felt we lost for a number of

reasons. one was that we weren't offering us a vision radical alternative, the austerity agenda being put forward by the government. and i was asked by colleagues in parliament and a number of people outside if i was prepared to contest the election. i did. initially, we were completely written off i the media. i don't know if you do gambling, but we were get been -- we were given odds of 200 to one. so it was a good investment. we launched our campaign by taking part in public debate and then traveling around the country. we did 100 events in different towns and cities all over britain. a lot of people came together, young, old, all groups, everybody. and the support group because what we were offering was an opening up of politics in britain. and the result, you know, we won with 60% of the vote, the

highest ever vote cast in the party election in britain. in the membership of the labour party has now reached 400,000, which is more than doubled in six months. it has been an interesting time. amy: you have just had a major vote that you lost, and it was around the bombing of syria. you were opposed. other members of your party were for and against. this meansts on what an almost immediately, britain started bombing syria. in parliament since 1983. i have been involved in many issues over the time. indeed, we first met when i was opposing the iraq war in 2003. what happened in paris was appalling, disgraceful, disgusting. this afternoon i was one -- at one of the cafés that was affected and signed a remembrance book. is the response to start bombing syria or to actually bring about

an speed up the political dialogue, which of the and of the day, is the only thing that is wondering about he's in syria? i support the political dialogue, not military intervention. i realize this was going to be a difficult issue in the british parliament, difficult issue i am amy own party, and leader, not a dictator. i want to persuade people rather than threaten or control them. and so i decided that i would allow all our members of parliament a free vote on the subject. they can make up their own minds on it. and also, consult the public. so what i did was wrote in e-mail to all 400,000 of our party members, and we got a huge response in which 75% were against bombing. i invited members of my parliamentary group, we call it a caucus, to vote against and three quarters or 60% of them did.

that is more than the number that voted for the bombing. in my own shadow cabinet, majority voted against the bombing. i hope this will be seen as a sign that the labour party is looking to peaceful solutions to the world's problems. above all, we will hold our government to account. didn't go thee where wanted it to an the bombing started a few hours later. amy: what would a diplomatic solution look like? >> the vienna process involves the syrian government, all the neighboring governments of iran, of iraq, of turkey. it involves all of those in jordan, of course. in involves all of the gulf coast nations, the european union, the usaid it is not going to be easy. but are we going to go into a proxy war between all of those competing groups and are ready what was a civil war or can we bring enough of them together to get at least a cease-fire in the

syrian civil war, and realize -- isolate isil for its arms, its arms, and the way it -- the role ofout saudi arabia. i've been concerned about the weapons within the region. i've also raised a number of occasions, the issue of human rights in saudi arabia. indeed, in my speech to our inual party conference brighton in september, i raise the issue of a british prison contract that was being sought in saudi arabia and also the question of the death penalty on a young man who was guilty of nothing more than going to a protest. the brilliantd work of many, many other people, not just me, helped to ensure britain withdrew from the present conflict and an older man, british prisoner who was in prison in saudi arabia, has been

released and others have not been executed. we have to keep up the pressure. but i'm also concerned about the issues of where the financial support for isil comes from. what i've done is asked our government and ask all governments, look into your banks and are banking systems, who is laundering this money? labels the manufacturers on those weapons that are used by isil. they did not all caps on nowhere. somebody has been selling those weapons. but also, look at the question of how we treat communities across the world so that so we isolate isil for what it is, but we don't blame people in the muslim community or any other communities. anti-summit to some, islamophobia, racism are all part of the same degree of intolerance. we have to oppose those and bring communities together. a because germany carbon, prime minister david cameron called you a terrorist sympathizer for

opposing the airstrikes. you have demanded an apology. >> he was asked many times to apologize. i pause my own speech of parliament to invite him. prime minister, this is not a time for these kind of remarks, can you please apologize? not just to me, but to all of the people that may be have the same kind of opinion i do. peopleined to know full can judge themselves. i want a world of peace. i'm not interested in bombs. i'm not interested in wars. i'm interested in peace. i think it's a means his office to make remarks like that. amy: you occupy the same position that tony blair once dead. tony blair, the prime minister who issued a kind of culpa around the invasion of iraq i saying that, well, let's go to a clip. >> what people look at the rise of isis, many people point to

the invasion of iraq as the principal cause. what do you say to that? >> i think there are elements of truth and that, but i think we've got to be extremely careful, otherwise we will misunderstand what is going on in iraq and in syria today. of course, you can't say those of us are removed saddam in 2003 buried a responsibility for the situation in 2015. amy: that was tony blair responding to the question on cnn whether in fact i says came out of the invasion of iraq. your response? >> i thought it was interesting. i finally disagreed with -- but a mentally disagreed with tony blair on the question, particularly of iraq, and it is interesting that in his interview on cnn, he did say that one of the effects of the war in iraq has been the growth like isil.al forces indeed, president obama said something similar about his

thoughts on the long-term effects of what happened in the whole region since iraq. i think we have to remember, not just afghanistan, iraq, but also think of libya. bombing libya to protect the people in benghazi against an apparent immediate threat from the forces led by colonel could all see. then went on to bombing campaign across the whole campaign. all of the state of her structure was destroyed. all of the system of government was destroyed. we now have a huge country which is dominated by a series of competing factions and is an ever present problem for everyone in the region, tunisia and other countries around there. again, it was western policy that decided on that just as much as western policy after the invasion of iraq in 2003 went on which hashification

taken more than 10 years to rebuiltand they're not yet. amy: according to the independent, an unnamed generals of the armed forces would stage a coup or muni if you became prime minister. >> i would ask for the source of this remark. none have been forthcoming. i have written to the secretary of state to ask for him to remind everyone that we live in a democracy where members of parliament are elected from which government is formed, and the government is elected to run a country with a democratic mandate. it is up to all those that work in the public sector to recognize that democratic mandate, that includes generals. amy: a lot of country -- controversy around a bbc question of which you would. -- drop a nuclear bomb and he said no. >> us that life opposing nuclear weapons and i asked if i was be -- i was asked if i would be

prepared to use nuclear weapons. i gave the answer i think everyone expected me to give, so that is my view. amy: for so many years you been involved with the stop the war coalition, along with the late tony benn, that it was his son hilary benn, who spoke out for the bombing of syria in the parliament? >> tony benn and i were very close, very close friends for 30, 40 years. we talked to each other a great deal and we were great friends. and i was with him shortly before he died, talking about prospects for the world and prospects for peace. i'm very sad that he is gone. he taught me a great deal. he taught an awful lot of other people a great deal. he did something that i haven't done. he kept a good diary of everything he did and learned from it. perhaps i should do the same. i don't think one should ever start on the family connections one way or the other. everybody makes up their own mind, everybody makes their own decisions, and i would never

involve myself in that sort of argument. amy: your thoughts on guantánamo? president obama said it was one of his first acts after became president was to issue an executive order saying he would close guantanamo. it has been almost seven years and the prison remains opened. >> i was very pleased when president obama issued that order. people whoed with have been campaigning to close down one time obey, and get -- guantanamo bay. we do get the british nationals that were held there released after some pressure. we had a much longer campaign for shaker aamer, a saudi family., but a british i got to know his family. we have been cap and for his release. i went to washington in may with an all party delegation of conservative and labour mps to lobby for the release of shaker

aamer in the closure of one-time obey. whether that had any effect on obama's decision, i don't know. we will do what we have to do. there was a sense of extraordinary fulfillment when shaker aamer came into parliament two weeks ago. i met him in a special room we have for the shadow cabinet with all the sort of very english oak paneling around. shaker aamer was there with friends celebrating his release. a great moment. but what honored are we doing in this world where we lock people up for now 14 years in guantánamo bay for no charge, no trial, no process, no habeas corpus, a legal blackhole of the equivalent of outer space where we don't know what goes on there? it is simply wrong.

it is got to be closed. it cannot -- we cannot put people in prison for that link of time, treat them in that way, and call it justice and say we are in favor of a world based on rules and laws will stop you can't do it. it is got to be closed. amy: jeremy corbyn, we just came back from a refugee camp about two hours north of paris. there are 6000 to 7000 refugees there who are desperately trying to make it through the channel tunnel into britain. what should happen? should britain open its doors? >> what we have got to do is, first of all, and sure those people have doosan conditions in which -- have decent conditions in which to live post up at they shouldn't be there. and our people in my community collecting food and clothing and so on to take to them. they're doing a great job supporting them. they should not be there. their position has to be regularized.

various countries should be prepared to open her doors for them. britain, so far, has refused to join in with european refugee program on syria. indeed, the british government has said it will take 20,000 syrian refugees, but only from camp's adjoining syria and in lebanon,nly -- mainly, and we will bring them in over five years. germany has taken hundreds of thousands of people already who managed to get to your looking for a place of safety. i think we have to both open up and take in far more of the syrian refugees, but also take in those people that are living in these desperate camps because it is inhuman. when we just had a meeting here tonight in paris, i was pointing out that people are refugees for lots of reasons. from environment degradation, natural disasters, lots of reasons why people become

refugees. we're not want to secure the world's future with razor wire and electronic surveillance of borders. you only secure the world's future if you deal with the desperate levels of inequality in the world and deal with the disproportionate effects of environmental change around the world. amy: we were just talking to the french journalistic was hainan who was an isis hostage for 10 months. way the western powers are dealing with refugees is only fueling isis. acting as a great recruitment for isis by not opening the arms and letting people in so people can see what the alternative is. >> all i have read indicates that the bombing campaigns over the past few months against isil has exley increased the number of recruits. it has fueled the allure of isis. i don't believe there is an allure of isil, but for some people there is.

we have to find a different and better way of doing it. is: the map of the camp, it divided into different populations from different countries. it says, afghanistan. it says, iraq. it says, syria. and thousands of people live in freezingpupept tents and the wind goes right through them. no one can get warm. this is a map of the bombing targets of the western countries. iraq, afghanistan, syria. >> what comes around, goes around. what goes around, comes around. we have to think very carefully about the policies we have had over the past 14 years, ever since 9/11 step 9/11 was a disaster, dreadful, awful, appalling. we bombed afghanistan. 14 years later, britain, mainly left afghanistan, the u.s. is still there stop is it a country at peace?

no, many people are fleeing afghanistan because of the continued instability there. surely, the future of this world has to be looking into fundamental causes of these conflicts, not just dealing with the symptoms. amy: why are you here in paris? >> to attend me climate change conference. it is extremely interesting. i've had meetings with a number of people. today here in paris, i have been to one of the -- areas that was attacked and the awful evening. i am here this evening for a very big event with naomi klein, talking about environment of politics in a sustainable future for the world. we're saying, don't be afraid of the future. embrace the future for all of us by challenging global warming, by challenging environmental destruction, by challenging global inequality. amy: i know you have to live, but the connection between war, between drilling for oil, and

climate. >> well, if you look at countries where there is a great a fairlyoil, ok, recent phenomenon. that is over the past year or two years. we have gone down a great deal -- they have gone down a great deal. to some extent, the rush to develop frontier oil resources has reduced, but i'm sure it will come back. when you look at the brutality of it, the brutality of the way in which oil has been done a number of countries, latin america, the thirst for oil over the middle east and a thirst for oil in other places, we need a sustainable planet. we need a sustainable future. we need sustainable energy sources. we don't have to be like that. it is a great deal that can be achieved using good technology to use less energy and develop a sustainable way. amy: jeremy corbyn, think of for being with us. british opposition leader jeremy corbyn in his u.s. tv/radio

first interview since being britain's labour leader. speaking to us after a large labor gathering. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, one of the world's leading climate scientists. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: ta'kaiya blaney, a 14-year-old from the tla'amin first nation in canada, singing her song called, "turn the world around" at the international rights of nature tribunal on -- here in paris this weekend. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're broadcasting from the u.n. cop21 heremit, the

in paris, france. at of the talks more than 180 , nations pledged to voluntarily reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but many climate justice groups say far more needs to be done to keep global warming in check. we are joined now by one of the world's leading climate scientists who has come to the paris talks with a shocking message -- the climate crisis is more severe than even many scientists have acknowledged. kevin anderson is deputy director of the tyndall center for climate change research at the university of manchester in britain. he said many scientists are self-censoring their work to downplay the severity of the climate crisis. dr. anderson recently wrote -- "yet so far we simply have not been prepared to accept the revolutionary implications of our own findings, and even when do we are reluctant to voice such thoughts openly, many are ultimately choosing to censor their own research." welcome back to democracy now!

you came from britain? how did you get here? >> by train. amy: i remember when we were in copenhagen, you refuse to fly. >> of a float for 11 years. amy: why? is important we demonstrate we can lead good lives, carry out our jobs without high carbon footprints. i am just one person, but it is a symbolic message that it sends. attitude onfferent some of the academic colleagues who also take a similar approach, try to avoid flying where they reasonably can. he can make things difficult, but we have to make that effort. amy: why are you here? >> there's a scientific andrtant message to be made can relate to not just policy makers and the people here but to why society, civil society to discusss, even

amongst the scientists here as well. amy: what is that message? >> the voluntary submissions that are being put ford by all other countries, when you add all of these up, they are far, far above the level of what we call dangerous climate change. all of our leaders have committed to to avoid going rise,this two degrees c about six degrees fahrenheit. when you add all of the commitments countries are making, it is far, far above tot three or four degrees c to rise. it is a global average. most of the globe is covered in water. on average, that is an average of -- if we carry on like we are now, as high as six degrees c. temps to rise. amy: what does that look like on the ground? >> if we saw those changes, we would see dramatic change in food crops. 40% reductions in rise, wheat, the sorts of crops. huge changes in sea level rise by the end of the century but also locking in very large sea

level rise changes going forward beyond that. increase in droughts and in flooding some increase in severity of typhoons in the southern hemisphere. a lot -- we have all learned to live with the weather we have had. what we're seeing is significant increases in extremes around the planet. we would suffer significantly from a 4 degree c to rise. climate scientists are self censoring. what are they saying? >> those who look at us retranslated what it means to policymakers, what we are afraid of doing is putting forward analysis that questions the economic paradigm, the way we run society today. we don't question that, we fine-tune our analysis so it fits in the political and economic framing of society currently. fundamentalnow asks questions about economic growth in the short-term, and we are

reluctant to say that. the funding bodies are reluctant to fund research that raises those questions. researchscientists, committed to, those who funded the research, journalists and events like this, we're deliver deliberatelyf -- being self delusional. we know it is much more severe than we pledge openly. it is like a collective façade. amy: let's talk about the headlines today on democracy now!, we talked about regime issuing its first-ever red alert for air pollution as china's capital city is engulfed in thick smog rife with poisonous chemicals that can make residents sick from simply stepping outside. this isn't because there are some catastrophic meltdown at a coal plant or factory, this is just daily life in beijing. >> yes, and that is because the sorts of power they're using in cars, they'rehe

not running cleanly. they're putting lots of nasty pollutants in the atmosphere and a lot of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere as well. there's a local air pollution issue and a real issue for climate change. to the chinese credit, they're significantly trying to reduce the amount of local air pollution and other cities because they know there's a big health and economic impact. the chinese are moving in the right direction, but nowhere near fast enough. amy: then you have what is happening in england, in norway, for example, absolute crisis that they are saying they are saying problems like they haven't seen in 100 years. >> and in india, big floods as well. we're seeing lots of extreme weather events. we have to be careful a scientist. everyone of these events is a climate change event will stop but there are climate change science and analysis that makes it clear the sorts of things were doing in emitting

carbon dioxide into the atmosphere means we will see more of these sorts of events and increase the very degrees. these are indicative of what we would ask act to see. amy: can you talk about what we consume and the united states, what you consume in britain compared with what is consumed in other parts of the world? >> only talk about carbon dioxide, the fossil feel we are burning, 50% of the global carbon dioxide's from 10% of the population. -- diggingpulation deeper, more disturbing figures. the top 1% in the u.s., they more than 2.5 thousand times globally. therefore, the climate change we are witnessing now. when we think about policy, this is not about everyone in the world making big reductions in

their energy consumption, it is about those of us responsible for the lions share making that. amy: compare what americans consume from europeans. >> americans, twice as much, roughly. when we look at all of the indices of quality of life, it is no better than quality-of-life for a typical european. your cars are heavier and bigger, refrigerators are bigger. the americans can live just as good a quality of life as they do today and they can probably do it with all of the things they do today and significantly reduce their emissions down to the eu level. it would not be enough, but do it would he is you to step in the right direction. amy: what you said a presidential candidates like donald trump he says he doesn't believe in human made global warming, says sometimes there is global warming and sometimes there is global cooling? >> there's a really is a small but for sevres contingent in the u.s. that doesn't believe in

science, if we are blunt about it. it is nothing new about climate change. it is not a new science. they don't believe in darwin and evolution. the particular group that doesn't like the idea of what science has to say about many subjects, that group you're not going to change their minds. i think we have to talk to the other people were open to the fact that what we're looking at is a scientifically well understood area. we are fairly clear, the science is categorical the missions we put in the atmosphere is changing the desk even the climate skeptics do not discount it is changing the temperature. amy: your very critical of models that rely on negative emissions through technologies that remove carbon dioxide. explain. >> this comes back to the idea we all want to fit within our framework, political and economic, don't want to question it. when we look at the temperatures

rise, huge shift in the average to better for the planet, but we are certain carbon budget, certain amount of carbon dioxide within a minute into the atmosphere over the century. we know that very well from the science. the problem is, we've emitted so much of that, used up so much of that budget, spent that money already, that what is left is so small, if we're going to stay within that budget, we now have to either make dramatic changes the way we make our lives -- fly less, live in smaller houses, goods,ess, consume less the wealthy societies have to make those changes. because we are reluctant to make that point politically, they're saying, we can increase the size of the carbon budget, which means we can suck the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere in -- with the technology that doesn't exist at the moment. we are putting almost all of our eggs in the basket of technology that doesn't exist. at some point in the future, we will suck the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. amy: we're talking to kevin

anderson deputy director of the , tyndall center for climate change research at the university of manchester in britain. if you could address what is happening here -- i think especially for americans, there's hardly any coverage of what is going on here. the world leaders came the first two days. that got maybe a little bit of coverage because it was the largest gathering of world leaders in the history of the world. but now, what is being worked out? >> all of the leaders arrived very early in this event in paris. they also all arrived with their voluntary contributions, what each country will do. obama can with what the u.s. would do, the eu has its version. almost every country in the world said, we can make this level of change. amy: voluntary. >> yes, no legal basis for this. amy: and that is because? politically, dust

significantly, we know it will not be passed in the united states. really mosttates is of blackmailing the rest of the world say, you cannot have a legal framework because we will not sign it. everyone has recognized that. because they say it is important for us to have an inclusive political agenda coming out of paris, we are prepared to accept this voluntary arrangement system, which, personally, i think it is a real problem in terms of what it means for people having to make those adjustments in their own countries. legally binding commitment would be something that would drive us a little further than voluntary, like most voluntary goals and targets, will no doubt breach. anyway, every leader arrives saying, this is what our country can do. the leader goes away and leaves with the go shooters and other scientists and others saying, what you put together stout -- is not enough, we need more. discussions going for the following two weeks. how to tighten up his agreements, can we review her

theaters every few years, review those agreements on the basis of what has happened in terms of emissions in the latest science. this two weeks, what we hope to have is a strong agreement, even though it won't be legally binding, a strong agreement that says countries will do particular levels of emission reductions and we will review those every few years. but it is very unlikely what we will get by the end of this event is a document that is in line with the two degrees c to rise, in other words, avoiding dangerous climate change. so paris is not the endgame. what happens after paris is very important indeed. and you go talk about the climate fund. what is it? killerber when it was clinton, secretary state, who announced have much money would go into the climate fund in copenhagen. courts what we call loss and damage. basically, money from the wealthy parts of the world that they see as giving to the poor parts of the world to help the poor parts deal with adaptation

and the impacts of climate change and adaptation. when we think about that, the amount of money that is -- when it is not on the table, the amount of money proposed is $100 billion per year, every year. we haven't got that. but when we think about $100 theion, that is 1/15 of size of the u.k. economy, a relatively small country in the globe. and that is all we are prepared to give as a collective -- collecting the wealthy countries to the poor countries to deal with impacts of climate change. we are arguing, should be 110, 90? this is a small chrome. we're all fighting over what size that crumb should be with a real argument should be, we should be talking about trillions of dollars that are necessary to help the poor parts of the world not build -- to deal with it accept climate change and make their societies resilient.

so this fight is there to help the poor parts of the world, but it is such a small amount of money. cleverly, they make is argue about this small amount of money. -- modern society that we're not prepared to make changes that are necessary in terms of reducing or even helping the more impoverished were people who have not made any contributions to the problems that we're trying to solve now. amy: as we wrap up, kevin anderson, what do you think is the most important take away from this conference right now, from your work, from what you see as happening in the world? >> the most important thing is we can all trigger change. it is. just about world leaders or the big charities, the ngo's them about scientific community, this is a problem for all 7 billion people on the planet. we have local politicians and we ought to be pushing hard for an agreement for a change in the way we run our society to become very, very low carbon and

quickly, indeed. it is up to all of us. there are 7 million -- 7 billion stakeholders. amy: are you hopeful? >> know, but if we don't try, we are guaranteed to fail. amy: kevin anderson deputy , director of the tyndall center for climate change research at the university of manchester in britain. this is democracy now! back in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: patricia gualinga of the sarayaku of the ecuadorean amazon, singing at the indigenous kayak flotilla here in paris, france this weekend. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. there broadcasting from cop21, u.n. climate summit, here for the full two weeks. we end today's show with an

update in the negotiations taking place here at the summit. on monday, the prime minister of two blue said world leaders must prevent the world from warming more than 1.5 degrees celsius or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit. >> the current warming my country and many others like us in the pacific, caribbean and indian ocean, our future is pretty bleak. we must urgently cut greenhouse gases and dramatically transform the global economy to a renewable energy pathway. any further temperature decrease beyond 1.5 degrees celsius will valul the total demise of tu and other low-lying nations. amy: joining us now is nitin sethi senior associate editor at , the business standard in india. his recent piece is called, "u.s. and eu want loss and damage as a toothless tiger in paris agreement."

toothless tiger? what exactly do you mean? you got a hold of documents that must people haven't seen. >> loss and damage is an issue leading to a couple of things, primarily, if you cannot adapt to an inevitable climate change, what do countries do? they built up a lot of damage and we will be up to see -- will they be of the claim compensation against countries? in this case, the u.s., particularly in the ability, supported by the eu have come back and said, we want to make sure in paris, [indiscernible] you must say you must never ever asked for compensation. amy: way, there's and you can use "loss and damage" but only if you agree that you don't get compensation? >> absolutely. that really means loss and damage -- you're looking at risk

insurance at the best of the times that might come for some countries, but the poor countries can't afford insurance because the premiums are going to be so high. consider the fact if we have sea level change, no insurance company is going to ensure you against sea level rise because -- the risk levels are so high, the premiums will be so high, the poor countries can't afford it. there's only some hope that you will be compensated in different ways and there could be liability charges where of the countries having had their emissions enough, which causes climate change, they should be paying for it. they're saying, we should never have a conversation about it hereafter. amy: so i think it is framed in the united states as a kind of, should the u.s. be charitable are less able to take care of themselves in other parts of the world? >> i don't think it is about charity. you pay compensation for the damage you cause to your neighbor, some sense.

you break some of these fence, you set it up right. of thedestroying lives people. you're paying compensation for the levels they won't be able to live in their homelands perhaps thereafter. this is not charity. this is a different ballgame. amy: what are these documents you have gotten? >> and offer the u.s. made informally to developing country groups saying, this is loss and damage, i agree to this, but if we had this explicit -- you shall forego all rights to compensation and lability. amy: president obama met with small island nation presidents. is this actually what he was telling them? we got the word he said, i'm an island by myself, grew up in hawaii and indonesia. >> absolutely. after all, i think there's again they all play. if you look at what happened after president obama met these , each of them came out saying, well, we're working with the u.s. for a language

which is convenient to the u.s. that signifies there is a break even among what is called -- small island states, which compromises -- comprises indian ocean, the african region, caribbean. stateseement a valid under the pressure of the u.s., seen these eyelids move away. we hear now that even tuvalu is saying maybe we can live with the fact we not have compensation. this happened just about an hour ago behind closed doors, saying we can look for lent which that kind of makes you happy, just don't say it so loudly. about you andtalk censorship. what is that? >> can you say that again? amy: u.n. censorship. we spoke to yeb sanyo announces october who walked from rome to paris, but he is not the chief, negotiator for the

philippines. he was pulled. what happens to climate negotiators who speak out? >> you can go back to copenhagen , remember, he was the first when a talk about issues of apartheid, developing countries are being treated, we never saw him back in negotiations thereafter. twoappened to yeb sanyo years ago. he fought hard and disappeared. in fact, the philippines had to walk away from the like-minded developing countries because they were pretty strong. now the philippines as part of where they don't have a stan olmos and damage anymore. this." a few days ago, the g77 chair from south africa said, my country is getting phone calls saying certain negotiators out of the talking rooms because of hardliners.

one of the key negotiators for the groups was from bolivia and he is no longer in the room anymore. he is a key guy on loss and damage and adaptation. amy: who was taking them out? >> clearly, knowing who's favorite is, primarily the u.s. and other developed countries. nearly all want to make this call to say these guys should be removed. this is not the first time it is happen. the philippines are under pressure not to have these people who know the convention, who know the rules, who know the history of these negotiations. amy: nitin sethi, i want to talk about your home country, india. you have now the air force resuming rescue operations in the southern state, what is happening? >> leucine rains in a fashion part ofver seen in that the country. that region is never seen this a volume of rainfall.

certainly, we are clearly seeing a pattern where systems are changing and also cities and capable of adjusting to these extreme events. that is why think developing countries like india so we need finances and technology to build new cities better rather than making it worse. amy: in delhi, cars have to go on alternative days based on the license plates? need tosame we also clean up our act. it signifies the fact that india is trying to do a lot on its own, the fact it is moving -- in public transport. coal powerplant of a settlement is opening until 2020 and india? >> that is what the government suggests. even after he does that, it's total coal production will be about one third of what u.s. produces today. it is per capita consumption of -- , so this is

amy: we thank you very much for being with us, nitin sethi, senior associate editor at the business standard in india. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]